[J*e*n*_78]

We haven't had the procedure done yet but we are struggling with the same question right now.. what if we use DS and have a child... do we ever tell them?

I do know that if we did we would wait until they were old enough.. so we would have many years to ponder at least. I almost think it serves no purpose to really tell them if it was an anonymous donor vs. an open donor ( just my own opinion).

An open donor I would lean more towards telling them. Again, totally on the fence still on this one so just know you are not alone!!! And it is great you are asking questions- so don't worry about that! It means you care!

[1of2mommies]

I'm going to speak on that question, fla_golfer, from the perspective of my partner, who is adopted.

It has been probably the single most painful and influential aspect of her childhood and adult life: not knowing anything about her biological parents.

It's not that she wants a relationship with them, or even really needs to know them on a personal level, but she doesn't know ANYthing about the people who contributed to her coming into the world. She has no medical or mental illness history, no idea about siblings, who she might look like, nothing.

Her adoptive parents are her "real" parents for her, no doubt about that. She feels no familial ties to her bio parents. But there is, undeniably, a connection there, if only on the cellular level, and she would just about kill to have even the tiniest scrap of information.

The thing with not disclosing to a child that he/she is adopted or that she/he was conceived using a donor, is that the truth is bound to come out sometime. A whispered conversation overheard. An off-the-cuff comment from a cousin. A medical issue that comes up and cannot be explained, or blood types that don't match up.

Imagine the pain then, when the child (or adult child!) finds out that they've been lied to their entire life, by their own parents of all people. Personally (this is only my opinion), it is absolutely appropriate and important to be honest with the child about his/her past. My partner and I have chosen an open donor for this reason...we feel the child has a right to know these things, or at least has a right to CHOOSE to know these things. He or she may never want to know a thing about the donor (this happens for adopted children as well), but at least if it does become something they want to do, they have the control and the empowerment to make that choice.

I recall seeing a book written for children to explain the situation...here's the link: chapters.indigo.ca: Let Me Explain: A Story about Donor Insemination: Jane T. Schnitter, Joanne Bowring: Books
I have not read it myself, but it might be a good way to help an older child learn the circumstances, the language, and that they're not the only ones.

None of this stuff is easy. We expect there to be lots of talking, tears, grief and maybe even anger over being a kid conceived by donor sperm. We can only hope that, in the end, our family as it is will be enough, and that our child can be content with having the ability to learn about his/her past when and if he/she chooses. The honesty is more important to us than any backlash the secrecy could cause. Because our kid won't have a dad, the questions are likely to come up much sooner than you might have to face...but I'd be honest right from the start, when the kid starts to wonder about where babies come from. There are other books that explain all kinds of ways that babies come to families: adoption, surrogacy, donors, etc...we'll probably be investing in lots of books like that. I think if you introduce the idea to them when they're really young, it's not so much of a shock when they're old enough to REALLY understand what it all means. They'll have had years to process the language and that they were brought into the family a little differently than some kids, but that other kids are in the same situation and that it's ok.

Sigh, it's a big question, isn't it?

[fla-golfer]

j*e*n* and 1of2, In many aspects i agree with and understand both of you. The last thing I would want to do is hurt (emotionally or any other way) the child. I guess my biggest issue or concern with this situation is this...

With adoption (in my opinion, I've never had to do this before, so I really dont know), you can tell a child at a younger age that they were adopted and it would probably be easier to understand then trying to explain a donor situation...because with adoption there are two different biological parents, rather than only 1 with DS/DE (Again I don't know this, but this is how I would think...but I might be wrong)

I mean, how would you sit a child down and try and explain that your mom is biologically connected with you, but your dad is not (or vice versa)...and then try to work in the conversation the idea of using another man's/woman's part...especially, even when they don't understand anything regarding reproduction yet.

Like I have said in another post, I am a psychotherapist by profession, and have assisted individuals/couples/families through a variety of extremely traumatic and in depth situations/experiences...but it absolutely baffles my mind to think of how someone could approach this with their kid...and above all, how old they would need to be to understand the situation. Would you begin by being very general and use the idea of adoption as a means to ease the child down the path, and once they grow older then explain it in more in depth terms.

This reminds me of the movie Kindergarten Cop (not particluarly one of my favorites) and one of the young kids in that movie. When Arnold Schwarzenegger is interviewing all of the children to see what their parents do for a living, they get to the child that has parents that are gynecologists. The kid goes on to talk about the reproductive organs of both males and females...in kindergarten! If you are only 5-6 y.o. when you are in kindergarten, it makes me ask the question how old, or should I say young, would be old enough to talk about these things?

1of2, how old was your partner when she found out that she was adopted? I know the DS situation is a bit different, but adoption is still a very dramatic life changing event (probably both good and bad), so i would be interested.

I will definitely take a look at the book, thanks for the recommendation.

I would love to keep getting responses in regards to this situation...

Thanks everyone

[1of2mommies]

I beleive she was around 9 or so when her parents told her. And then it became a dirty secret that no one would talk about until she turned 18 and her parents gave her the adoption papers. Total silence the whole time, festering feelings of alienation/otherness growing every year, and wild imaginings about what her bio parents might be like. She has been searching for answers ever since.

I think all kids ask questions about body parts and where babies come from at about age 2 and on. I think it's reasonable to have conversations about reproduction, donors, etc, at that age, but at a very basic level: women have eggs and men have seeds/sperm that come together inside a woman's womb (which is in her tummy), and the egg and sperm grow in the womb and become a baby. for us the conversation might then continue: your mommies wanted you to be our baby very much but we didn't have a man's sperm to grow a baby. so your mommies found a nice man who wanted to help us make a baby by giving us his sperm: he is called a donor. A doctor helped mommie's egg meet the donor's sperm by putting it inside her tummy, and then a baby grew -you!)...(for you, the conversation would probably start off similar "your mommy and I wanted you in our family very much, but daddy did not have any sperm to make a baby...so your mommy and daddy found a nice man who wanted to help us make a baby by giving us his sperm: he is called a donor...etc...") I would probably also then mention that some babies grow in a woman's womb and then the baby goes to live with it's mommy and/or daddy after its born (i.e. adoption - we'll have to discuss that one too as our kid's cousin is adopted), and that sometimes doctors can use another women's egg to help a baby grow in it's mommy's womb, etc.

Most really young kids will accept that, and probably won't ask many questions about how exactly it got in there, but if you have a really precocious kid and they are curious and want more details, I don't see any problem filling in some of the blanks, and using proper terminology like "donor" "vagina" and "penis"...it's all natural stuff and there's no reason to shy away from talking about it when the bring up the subject. Kids aren't freaked out by body functions or parts at that age, and are naturally curious. I don't think you should wait until a child is old enough to fully understand reproduction (ie 8-9)...better to normalize the topic very young (again, my opinion only).

And I think that using children's story books that describe other children conceived in similar ways, or in other "non-traditional" ways, will help normalise the situation in a non-threatening way and allow them to discuss aspects they want to clarify on their own terms.

edited to add: also, I don't think it should be a big "sit down for THE BIG TALK" kind of discussion either. I don't beleive in having one big ol' "birds and the bees" talk with a child just before they hit puperty and hope it all sunk in. Most of the stuff you need to talk about will come up natually when the child notices things like new babies, big pregnant bellies (maybe a sibling on the way?)...they will ask questions that will allow you to provide them with the information they need at the time.

But truly, above all, I firmly beleive that families need to be honest and open. Imagine never being able to talk about it to your wife, family members or anybody that you've been turning to and talking to about IF issues in fear that your child might overhear something they shouldn't...a big elephant in the room that everyone has to pretend doesn't exist! I can't imagine living like that (well, I did live like that actually, before I came out as a lesbian...I had to lie all the time to the people I loved best and it was the most horrible, awful feeling...SOOOOOO much better now that we can talk openly-but I digress)

This is a really great conversation and I'm glad to be discussing it with you. Like I said, it's not an easy thing to wrap your head around. It's certainly not for us (and we've had loads of time to think about it!)

[wannabigbabybelly]

We aren't in the position of needing DS at this point.

But I will offer my opinion regarding telling the child.

We've adopted 4 children through fostercare. I think it's very important that a child knows his/her "story/history" from a young age and that there aren't any secrets.

Our kids know about sex. They know how a baby is made. They also know that we are not their biological parents. We even have contact with some of our childrens biological families/parents.

So no...our story of how we became their parents did not start with DH sperm and my egg, they didn't grow in my tummy. Instead we tell them how much we wanted a child and how much they needed a loving family to care for them and keep them safe and how blessed we all were that God answered our prayers and brought our family together.

We are finished adopting now but we are still continuing to TTC. Our kids know that mommy and daddy can't have kids on our own and that we have to see a doctor and take medicine and do all kinds of procedures. They are even exctied to come with us and wait with DH in the waiting room. They tell us how much they hope Heavenly father and the doctors will help us get a baby in our tummy, to be their brother/sister. Basically we keep them involved in the process and let them know it is natural/normal. Sometimes Mommy's and daddy's need the help of a doctor or others to get pregnant and that's ok.

They know that families are built in different ways and that one way isn't any better than the other, because Heavenly father matches children up with the family he wants them to be with and that happens in many different ways.

When we finally do have a bio-kid they will definately know their story as well....every single detail of it.

It's not somethting we're ashamed of, or that needs to be kept a secret.

I think the same would be true in a donor situation. It's a special part of the family/childs history. In how their dreams of becoming a family were realized. Yes, they may have questions a long the way, they may even have a desire to know the sperm donor or at least see what he looks like, and I think that is completely normal. But I do think they have a right to know. That's part of who they are and how they came to be.

But having the sperm donor won't make you any less of a father. Your child will only know you as his daddy. You will be in all his memories. He/she may not have your genetics but what you can offer them is sooo much more. They wil have your love, your time, your values, your hobbies, your talents, your manuerisms, your way of talking etc etc...

Believe me, I've seen it!!! None of my kids are biologically related to us or each other even. But we are a family there's no denying it and every single day I see my kids copying our every move and sound. They even have the same facial expression we have.

Being adopted is part of who they are...but it's not ALL they are....just like being the child of DS is part of who that kid is and how they came to your family....but it's not something that defines them.

[J*e*n*_78]

Wow, you all have such great points/perspectives. Great discussion!! It really gives us all alot to think about, doesnt' it? One thing I know for sure is any child we have we will cherish. I believe we will all know what is right for ourselves and our families when the time comes. Thank you- this discussion has helped me as well! Best wishes to all of you!

[wanting]

my husband was completely against it at first. There was no way we were doing that. After the inital hurt wore off it was alittle easier to talk to him and he agreed we could give it a try. There are days he's still having a hard time with it and some days he's fine. My next IVF is in DEC so hopefully he will still be okay with it by then. One day he said I should just tell you to go sleep with someone else. I told him nobody EVER has to know we used DS. Good luck to you and your wife I hope whatever you deside gets you your long awaited family.

[okkatiejane]

It took my DH almost 2 years to come around to the idea. At first he was completely against it. But, the more he saw me suffering, the more he thought about it and decided that he would rather end my suffering than worry about his pride. I just had to be very patient and he came around to it.

[happythoughts]

To tell or not to tell a child is a serious decision to me ! It really can affect them any so many ways. We have decided not to tell he child or anyone else in the family, you know once one person knows te entire FAMILY KNOWS. We are not telling, we tried to match personality and, blod type, and eye color.

Good luck,

Lori

[Maxwell]

I am new to this forum and am thankful for all the information and support available. My wife and I have been discussing DS. I was found to have NOA and next step is a testicular biopsy but two urologists and a reproductive endocrinologist do not seem to feel confident in finding any sperm. I feel terrible for my wife, she wants this more than anything and she is perfectly healthy, this is so unfair to her. So, whatever she wants to do, I am supporting her 110%. Though, my one hang-up about DS is I feel that is unfair to the child in some regard. My wife says she would never want to tell him/her. I understand we can get DS that matches some of my characteristics but at some point in the child's life, I am sure something is going to be noticed like "Dad, where did I get this big nose from" or "why don't I really look like you at all?"-- I have read some articles written by individuals who were conceived with DS and many of them feel angry, or a void in their lives. It is important to note however, that these were children from single mothers who wanted children and did not have a DH, so they did not have a father growing up. So, we are in a different boat, but I wonder if that would make any difference in how a child would feel if they knew the history. I don't know, if we did not tell them, it would be like I am lying to them, pretending. I know you do not need sperm to be a "father"--but I think I would want to let them know. It is their right to know. I have also thought about adoption but at least with DS, my wife will be able to carry and have that connection, so I think that is the way we will go.

[foxxy]

Maxwell,

My DH is in the same boat. He was extremely angry at 1st, but then put my feelings/wants 1st and decided the DS route. We too are concerned about whether or not we will tell, and have decided that it completely depends on if a situation would come up or not. I hope not too, but if it is out of our control, then we will. We decided on a donor on his ethenticity, hair color, eye color, skin tone, hobbies and all around personality.
As far as the child not looking like you at all, well, I look nothing like my mom. All of my physical features and personality came from my father with no doubt. So, there is no reason to worry. And you never know, he/she just may end up having similar features.
The bank we used also had ear, eye, nose, chin, forehead, earlobe size and shape features to choose from as well! Pretty crazy but worth it.
Good luck to you in your journey and remember don't worry about the obstacles until they come up and just enjoy life as it comes!

[Teagan873]

Hi Marc...in my personal opinion it is very unfair and selfish not to tell the child how they were brought into this world. I could see how people 10-20 years ago could go forward with this notion, but I've seen enough 20/20, Dateline, Primetime, etc. to know that kids will stop at nothing to find their "roots." If you choose anonymous DS, you are making the decision for your child that they will never have the opportunity to know more than what the cryobanks provide about the donor. The child's only hope for "connection" is if the parents choose to utilize the donor registries so they can reach out to their siblings. If an open donor is chosen, you would be providing your child the opportunity to meet the donor if they so wish. I personally will not keep any secrets from our child about how they were conceived. 1.) Because I am horrible with secrets. I'm a very open person and my luck something would slip out at the most inconvenient time. 2.) Because I feel being honest will make everyone involved feel more secure. I just couldn't live with feeling like I have a monkey on my back, constantly looking over my shoulder, wondering how I will react "the day" the child suspects something, or feeling like I'm being interrogated (like they're trying to figure something out) by peoples simple comments or questions.

You know...like I've said in earlier posts on this subject, my DH and I are very open about our IF and not ashamed of any part of it. It is what it is and the only thing you have control over is your ability to improve your chances by living a healthier, positive lifestyle. We have accomplished that beyond our own comprehension and are at peace with knowing that we need help. I've sat and thought about how we would tell the child and I've come to the conclusion that we're going to just go with the flow. I have also decided that I will write some sort of letter or story about our experience to share with our child in the future, when they are old enough to digest it all. One of my gf's Mother stashed a hope chest in her closet for 18 years. Each year she would add special things to the chest. On the day of my gf's grad party her Mom walked up and handed her a key and told her to go to the closet. It was THE most amazing thing I have ever seen. Everything special from the day she was conceived to the day she graduated. We both sat and cried and there was just no question about how loved she was. All I can say is this lifted my gf like nothing I have ever seen and she was fearless about becoming an adult because she felt SO secure. So, the day I find out we have a viable pregnancy is the day I buy my chest

All in all...the decision to tell your child is completely personal. I just feel that couples should put themselves in the child's position when they are 18 y/o...and seriously think about how YOU would feel if you found out. Since DH and I won't fully have the capability to do that because we know our parents...we have decided to give our child that power. We just couldn't live with ourselves if our child had a hole we created that couldn't be filled. We initially said we would never tell anyone about using DS. The more we thought about it...the more we realized we just couldn't live with such a huge secret.

I wish you all the best

[rhart]

In a way I wish my husband had been okay with DS a long time ago. I was able to do IUI with DS, but my husband wanted a child that was "ours", so I went through IVF and he had a biopsy. Things went very badly for us and I wound up having to have emergency surgery. Now I have decreased fertility and my husband has decided that DS is an option. Now to do IUI I would need to do injections and lots of doctor monitoring.

It took a lot to get my husband to a place where he would consider DS. We looked into a lot of adoption agencies and eventually decided to try to have a baby again. Now, for both of us even adopting embryos would be okay. As far as DS goes, you would still have the chance to experience a pregnancy with your wife and be a father to a child that you were present for the conception of.

[Ogee]

Hello members,

I posted on the Azoospermia board but seem to think this might be a better place to ask questions. I hope no one mids the dubble post. Sorry.

I am new to this board/forum but seem to think this is the right place for me for now. I apologize in advance for the long post. DH has non-obstructive azoospermia and a high FSH. We are no new to IF, however it took us quite a while to get where we are today.....

So 7 years ago after numerous tests DH did a TESA and retrieved 6 vials of sperm. We did IVF w/ICSI and now have a beautiful DD. We tried over the last 6 years with the rest of those vials to get PG and no luck (sperm quality issues in the vials).

As the years past we tried everything. We went ot all the "top" docs (here in the NY area) and the bottom line was nothing is going to change his sperm at this point.

With a last glimmer of hope we tried the drug Arimidex with TESA with Dr. Schelgal at cornell-(We live in NY) but nothing-no luck there either (in early 07).

We just went back to the Doc who did the original biopsy back in June of 00 (Bar-Charma at RMA 8-07) and is now on Arimidex plus 3 shots of ovadril per week. So far we have not seen much of an improvement in 4 months (his testoterone has not risen enough to start to produce quality sperm).

I'm running outta time so to speak.. I'm 38 and well, you know. So if he doesn't show any improvement soon they want us to use DS if we decide on trying to conceive to with any type of procedure.

I think I'm still morning the loss of not being able to have another child with DH bcasue when they told us we would need DS I broke down and have not been the same since.

Can I ask all of you how you feel regarding your DH's diagnosis of Azoospermia and DS as it pertains to our particular issue? How did you come to terms with the fact that this will not be DH's child in the biologial sense?

I'm also having a hard time with the fact that we already HAVE a child together and now we would be trying to conceive another that is not fully biologialy related.

Strange thoughts run though my head... will I love another child as much as I love the one we have "together"? Will that feeling always be in the back of my mind that they are different and not truely siblings in the gene pool.

The funny thing is.. is the DH doesn't seem to be the one with the problem of accepting DS, it's me. I don't know if it's because he is adopted himself. It's funny but I sometimes feel that because he was adopted, the need ot have a bloodline continue is stronger for me than it is for him. Strabger still is that I'm an only child and NEVER wanted to have just one child myself.

Please, please, any thoughts would be really, really, helpful. I seem to be all alone on this one and I'm starting to feel the pinch.

Thanks for listening....
Kristine

[lucyxyz]

Your story touched my heart as I just had an IVF using DE's. My husband and I have a beautiful 11 year old son conceived the old fashioned way. When we tried again starting about 5 years ago, and I didn't become pregnant in the first 2 months, I knew something was wrong. It's funny, but to someone like me (who had to use DE's) our explanation of it to friends and family was "men have been donating sperm for years and nobody ever thinks anything about it". I guess I didn't think of it from the recipients point of view. I apologize to you for that.

I'm 46, and my husband and I have wanted another child since our son turned 4 years old. I lost my tubes, then my eggs just plain got old. This was the ONLY way we were going to be able to achieve the goal of making our son a big brother, so to be honest with you, I really haven't thought much about the fact that the child won't have a biological tie to me. See, I want a child, so I made peace with that fact.

Anyway, about your point of 'to tell the child or not'. The way we feel about it is this. Every human being has the right to know "genetically and biologically" where they come from. So yes, we will tell the child. DE agencies do a pretty good job of screening donors, so "hopefully" genetic abnormalities, and diseases are sorted out prior, but you just never know. The agency we used requires the couple to see a psychologist. She confirmed that the studies she has seen, proves that telling the child is much less painful, and stressful for the parents then keeping such a secret for a lifetime.

I know you'll make the best decision for you and your family. I'm thinking now that if the tables were turned and if it were my husband that had the issue instead of me, would he have been so ameniable? You gave me food for thought.

To end on a happy note. I got a BFP last night on my HPT!!!