[Dona]

Hiya!

One of you sweet gals posted something about an article you read about how even when you use donor egg, the baby(ies) still are born with a bit of the DNA of the woman who carries the baby. This makes total sense as it's Momma's blood and everything else flowing through babies body, so I'm wondering about this. Would anybody know of an article or any place on line I could read more about this, I find it very interesting. I mean, makes perfect sense to me since our blood supply is needed for baby to even live and grow inside!

Thanks to anybody who may be able to help me with this!!

Dona

[chantalTTC]

Hmm - that would surprise me as I thought half the DNA comes from the egg and the other half from the sperm, but I am no expert by any means... Curious about this one - thanks for asking.

[mgmsrk]

I know that a few clinics have done some procedure where they take the donor egg and inject it with dna from the “birth mom” or visa versa (it has some medical term that I cant think of o-something) They have had live births from this procedure but it has come with a lot of controversy due to the fact that it often results in embryos having to many dna sequences, not a good thing. I remember it being a news story a few years back, New Jersey sticks in my mind as one place.

Now what I think you are referring to is a kind of latent DNA. This is a result of the fetus growing in a womb of a woman who has not given it her DNA from the egg but of course spent 9 months getting nurtured buy the birth mom. Babies whose DNA is tested and compared to the moms can show “positive” matches. This doesn’t mean that she has contributed her DNA to the making of the child, this situation also can occur from blood donations and organ transplants. When the baby goes on to have his or her own child they will pass on the DNA from the father and the egg donor, if it is a woman she will pass on the mitochondrial DNA from the egg donor also.

[mbc]

Dona,
Great question! In a reply to my thread a woman passed on that information as well. I am going to make the time (I hope!) and do some research. I will let you know! Thanks.
Also, congratulations on deciding to use donor eggs. I am very happy for you! I am on the fence right now but would love to hear about your process. I have been wondering how the selection process works in real life. Look forward to your updates!
Take care,
Mary Beth

[janehill]

Hmm.....strange. I did read something a couple of weeks back about something (in the lab only) about having 3 people fertilize one embryo. Yeah, I didn't get it either and didn't read into it (just the headline and sub head).

However, that is in an experimental stage and I'm sure there will be a lot of fallout surrounding it.

In terms of the current state of affairs, biology remains what it's always been - one egg, one sperm make one embryo, makes one baby.

The DNA of the child will only match the DNA of whomever produced the egg and sperm. And in fact, the gestational carrier never shares blood with fetus. The fetus has its own blood supply. This is why HIV positive women can and do give birth to HIV negative babies - because the blood is not shared between them. Otherwise, no fetus could escape transmission.

But it's pretty interesting where science and medicine may be able to go. Perhaps there will be a time in the future when the DNA of the egg of one woman is swapped out for the DNA of the other woman - essentially allowing woman with POR to ultimately carry a genetically related embryo. Wouldn't that be a hoot! (and it would then raise the level of egg donors by a mile, knowing the eggs they donate will never actually be their genetic offspring).

Amazing stuff!

[imagiccat]

Jane, there was some article someone posted not long back about the non-biological mother being responsible for something in the child, but I can't remember the specifics right now.

I think it was Shelley who posted the link. (?)

I hope she checks this thread and answers.

[janehill]

Very cool Lia!

I was wondering if it might be same article I glanced at regarding the 3 DNA to make 1 embryo.

I'm going to look into it. Wow!

[janehill]

Found it (was published in February). Pretty wonderful stuff to be able to swap out disease-causing genes for healthy ones. And along these lines, the embryo would be created by 3 separate DNA.

ABC News: Three Parents, One Embryo

[BabySteps]

I did a quick search and found this article Embryos with three parents created - World - theage.com.au

It makes sense about the blood not being shared. I am RH-. The babies will have a positive blood type because both DH and the donor have positive blood. Normally, unless there is a problem, the fetus's blood does not enter the mother's circulatory system during pregnancy. At 28 weeks I will need to get a Rhogam shot.

We do provide nutrients to the baby though

[mbc]

Shelley,
Thanks for the link to the article. It was very interesting. It makes me so grateful that science can help women and families with infertility issues. Although this journey is difficult for me and the emotional roller coaster is defeating at times, I still have to remind myself to be thankful for all the treatments that are available now!
Hope you are feeling well and are loving your pregnancy. Are the babies moving a lot? I just loved that feeling!
Thanks again.
Mary Beth

[janehill]

Thanks Shelley. Yeah, looks like the same article I read about swapping out defective mitochondria to eliminate disease.

So amazing what modern science can do - essentially bring a healthy, normal life to a baby that wouldn't have had one otherwise.

I hope this is viewed with a positive lens. Yes, we're slowly manufacturing "perfect" humans (in terms of health) - which I believe is what every single parent in the world wants - a healthy baby!

[BabySteps]

Mary Beth, yes the babies have been moving a lot, mostly in the last week, they now have a routine. It is a wonderful feeling. DH has felt the babies move for the first time in the last 2 days. It is one of the many perks with using an egg donor. I am so happy that I am able to experience this!

[shelly33]

I would like to see the article about the DNA which the baby receives (from the mother carrying it). Does anyone have this article???

[kirstyloo]

Sorry, this is going to be a long one. Like many of you, I was disappointed not to be able to have a genetic child. With that in mind, I thought that I would add my two bits in this thread and describe how giving birth to your child and loving your child has a genetic impact. If your not a science geek like I am , the last paragraph summarizes the earlier ones.

Shelley and Jane posted links to Embryos with three parents created - World - theage.com.au and ABC News: Three Parents, One Embryo . In these articles, they describe how they created couple cell pre-embryo with the genetic material from three people. People have DNA in two places—their nucleus and the mitochondria. During normal conception, nuclear DNA is donated from both the mother and father and mitochondrial DNA from the mother only.

In the instances above, they describe how researchers removed the nucleus from an egg (leaving donor mitochondrial DNA) and added nuclear DNA from a sperm and a different egg. Hence, the three parent creation (1/2 of nuclear DNA mom #1, 1/2 of nuclear DNA dad & mitochondrial DNA mom #2). In the article, they describe how they have only let the cells divide a couple of times before destroying them. As I’m sure you can imagine, this process isn’t available for primetime for both technical and ethical reasons. Even if it was a viable option, it probably wouldn’t work because of poor egg quality. The article suggested that this would be a way to help woman with a mutation in their mitochondria to have a genetically related child with normal mitochondrial DNA.

That being said, there is some research that I find comforting as I move towards egg donation. The Birth Mother and the loving family is important. She provides more than just an incubator for someone else’s egg. Evidence is mounting that the birth mother’s womb will modify the way genes are expressed, and that these changes can be transmitted onto future generations. The way this happens is through phenomena known as epigenetics. While we have known that one parent contributes one set of genes and the other contributes the other for a long time, we now know that it doesn’t end with inheriting a gene. Over the past 10 years, scientists have determined that same gene or genes be expressed in a number of different ways depending on the environment. A gene can remain silent (unexpressed) or it could be expressed weakly, moderately or strongly. Epigenetics is dependent on different types of imprinting.

In a donor egg pregnancy, the pregnant woman’s womb becomes the environment. How her body supports her unborn child can alter the way the DNA is expressed. How her genes are expressed can alter the way the donor egg DNA works. This means the resulting baby would be different if were carried by the genetic mother. It is even more incredible that some of the changes in the DNA expression appear to be passed onto the child’s children! Ok, ok, I know that reading information regarding a World War II Nazi induced Dutch Hunger Winter or how mouse nutrition affect coat color doesn’t make for light reading, but it does mean that your body can change the way the fetus’s DNA functions and possibly how the genes are expressed in your grandchildren!

An easier to understand but less human example has been documented in horses and ponies. During horse IVF, it’s not uncommon to implant a pony embryo into the womb of a horse. The resulting foals are bigger than a pony embryo born to a pony. In this case, the foal’s genes are the same as a pony, but they take on the attributes more like the birthmother--a horse. Is this epigenetics? It could be.

Animal data suggest that the interactions after birth can change the gene expression from donor eggs. While I don’t view myself as rat, the data suggest that loving motherly care by the rat (a.k.a. licking), changes the way the pups' brains develop structurally and at gene expression level. The environment can change gene function!

This means that a child that results from DE transfer will have its genes determined by the egg and sperm donor, but how those genes reveal themselves will be modified by the birth mother after implantation and by the loving people the wee one meets after leaving the womb. And the kicker is that some of these changes could be transmitted to your grandchild!


References:
Epigenetics article describing the Dutch famine of 1944-1945 and mouse nutrition altering gene expression and coat color
Pony and horse data
Effective mothering behavior in rats (licking) change gene expression

[annie]

This is so interesting - I just love it. My boy is all me - how funny is that?