[nrudolph0578]

Also littleblue, I am surprised that your Husbands doc put him on testoterone treatments as that severely lowers sperm count. If you are trying to conceive, your husband should absolutely not be on testoterone. My husband was offered it for physical reasons (his was borderline low, and he wanted to build up more muscle mass), but his urologist told him absolutely not if we were trying to conceive, becuase he would have no sperm there. Luckily, he didnt start the treatment and hasnt yet. But if he does, we do have two more rounds of ivf sperm frozen so it would not be that big of a deal. Once you are on the testoterone treatment, it typically takes up to two years for the sperm count to come back to normal.

[littleblue]

Originally Posted by nrudolph0578

Also littleblue, I am surprised that your Husbands doc put him on testoterone treatments as that severely lowers sperm count. If you are trying to conceive, your husband should absolutely not be on testoterone. My husband was offered it for physical reasons (his was borderline low, and he wanted to build up more muscle mass), but his urologist told him absolutely not if we were trying to conceive, becuase he would have no sperm there. Luckily, he didnt start the treatment and hasnt yet. But if he does, we do have two more rounds of ivf sperm frozen so it would not be that big of a deal. Once you are on the testoterone treatment, it typically takes up to two years for the sperm count to come back to normal.

OMG nrudolph01578 one of the reasons i started using this forum was because i was confused and worried about my husband taking testosterone. now i'm really angry at the doctor cause we told him that we researched and read that it lowers sperm count and he seemed not to care about that. i should also let you know that i live in Turkey and the hospitals here are not anything like what you all have. everything can be affordable to us (that is the upside of gov hospitals), but we are basically at the mercy of whatever option first pops into the doctor's head. but i think i will now suggest that me and my DH try a second opinion at another place just for variety.

the doctor's answer to everything is "well you are still young, don't worry you will have children in 3 months or 6 months or 1 year" in general Turkish doctors need not have any conversation with you and usually refrain from touching your body. there is no need for privacy as well, my DH has to produce his sperm samples using a uni-sex bathroom where most people go to produce pee samples!! i'm not bashing the country exactly because i love Turkey, but health care here is so impersonal and well dirty. you can't be shy or prude here or you will just have to stay home and be sick.

ok vent is finished anyone have some good stats about testosterone? DH was on it for 2 months! i hate being so informed when our doctor assumes that we don't even know what a hormone is or where sperm are made. holy crap! it really would be laughable if it weren't so incredibly aggravating to our situation.

good luck on tuesday bostonyankee!

[bostonyankee]

So, tomorrow is my appointment at the urologist here in Boston. I am excited, anxious and shared out of my mind, all at the same time!

[littleblue]

good luck

[bostonyankee]

Thanks, and the same for you! My wife is on the way up, to join me for the visit, and I am so thankful to her for that.

[bostonyankee]

So, we went to the appt yesterday. The dr was a darn sight better than the first guy, in terms of demeanor and information offered.

Looks like, based upon his examination, it will come down to a sperm production issue, unfortunately.

However, he ordered some new blood work (which they did right there, as opposed to the other guy where I had to come back in 2 week just for flippin' bloodwork) and we will meet again in 4 weeks. Four weeks! That is not bad, considering the other guy had like a 3 month wait just to get in to see him again, nevermind review testing results.

Based un the results, we will have a plan of action. These tests will tell us if my body makes sperm. If not, well, it's all done. But, he seems to feel that it is likely that my body makes the sperm, since I have a 6 year old, and that surgery would be needed to extract it. I told him I will buy him a 12 pack of any beer he likes after a successful surgery!

So, coming out of the meeting, I still feel nervous, but more importantly, I feel that I now have tengible hope.

[littleblue]

Originally Posted by bostonyankee

So, coming out of the meeting, I still feel nervous, but more importantly, I feel that I now have tengible hope.

that sounds 100X better! i'm happy that you have a better doctor now, the other guy didn't even bother checking up on your production?? nothing is final until you know the whole story (i keep telling myself that) and never give up hope.

i'm for your peace of mind during the next 4 weeks and got my fingers that the results will be helpful.

[bostonyankee]

3 weeks out now. Still feeling better about it that I did at the last doc, but very nervous as well. DW brought up DS again yesterday, and I am still petrified of that.

[AllDeliveriesNoBaby]

Hey Boston! I haven't posted in a while, but thought I would check in! You know, my DH and I had a really s**** first UR too! We went in to the office, the UR said "I don't know why your here, I can't help you" then proceeded to tell my husband to jump up on the table so he could examine his testicles!! My DH was so upset and mortified that we didn't have a serious conversation about kids for a year!!! When we finally went to a new UR he was awesome... ran test after test within business day (u/s, b/w, physical exam) because that was all my DH was in town for (he had to fly to another state). The results came back that we would have less than 10 percent chance of finding sperm during biopsy, so we opted out.

Now when it comes to the donor sperm thing- my DH was like you at first. He felt emasculinated, and resentful to me because I could have a baby of my own and he couldn't. I dropped all kinds of info in front of him to make him educated- embryo adoption, adoption, donor sperm... you name it. I also was ticked off at him for being so selfish about the donor sperm because it wasn't fair that he held his insecurities against me. I ended up telling him he needed to go to a counselor to deal with his insecurities because I married him for him, not his sperm or our ability to have children. (He also had an old GF who cheated on him). He did end up going, and he also ended up bringing the topic up to me in the end. He wanted to see me pregnant, To go get my midnight food cravings... to feel the baby kick inside, and watch it come into this world!! I think those are precious moments that can make you bond with almost any infant (I am an OB nurse- so I see it every day!). Of course I agreed to the ds without a hesitation.

I also think that you might have the donor sperm/ donor egg thing wrong-- MANY women are very upset that they can't have their own child and must resort to donor egg... regardless of whether or not they get to carry a child... some even have to use surrogates. Infertility hits us all in different ways- not just the person who gets the "bad" diagnosis. The fact is it effects the couple as a whole.

You know, donor sperm comes in a 0.5mL amount. That is about the tip of your finger from your first knuckle to the end of your nail. It isn't much and it is a neccessary means to an end.

I think it takes time, complete openness with your partner, and sacrifice on both ends. I think your DW is bringing it up for a reason. I also encourage you to look at the whole picture with her because this diagnosis really hurts! I am NOT saying ds is for everyone, but I am saying that it is a very personal decision on multiple levels. Every aspect must be considered.

All that truly matters is that in the end you BOTH are able to bond with and love that baby!

[bostonyankee]

thanks for the insightful, thoughtful reply. I hope and pray it does not come to that, becasue I am having a breakdown and all sorts of crazy thoughts just thinking about it. ONe the one hand, how dare I play God with my wife's life. She does not deserve that. On the other hand, how would I process the fact that each woman that I have married winds up with another man's sperm inside of them, and now have it shear my psyche in two?

[AzooDude]

Originally Posted by bostonyankee

On the other hand, how would I process the fact that each woman that I have married winds up with another man's sperm inside of them, and now have it shear my psyche in two?

I think some time spent in counseling with someone who specializes in fertility issues could be very helpful. (You also appear to have some betrayal and trust issues - understandably so - that could use help independent of the whole donor sperm question.) Whether you try that or not though, I think an important step in processing that problem is to acknowledge and appreciate the rather profound difference between a wife who has another man's sperm in her because she cheated, and one who is working openly and lovingly with you to use some anonymous man's sperm in a clinical, non-sexual setting, so you can be parents together. Cheating is not easy to think about rationally, but even if your heart is stubborn, your brain has to know the difference, right?

I'm not brushing off that primal objection you have about another guy's sperm touching your wife and the fact that one way or another, there was orgasm involved. I had that objection, too. But, that has to be weighed against the goal of having a baby with your wife. It wouldn't be like you were pimping her out to get her pregnant. You could take part in selecting the donor, and be there holding her hand if/when she's inseminated (IUI) or has embryos transferred (IVF). Make a list of all the responsibilities and priveleges of being a husband and father, and consider how many of them would be infringed by using donor sperm. That primal jealousy thing probably won't ever go away completely, but if you start thinking in terms of the husband and father you could be if you use it, you might find those objections aren't the dealbreakers you first thought they were. Then again, maybe they will be, but at least attempt to balance the pros and cons, and don't let the decision begin and end with only the cons.

FYI, my story isn't a complete match for yours, but there are similarities. After being diagnosed azoospermic, I struggled with the idea of donor sperm, partly because of that "other man's sperm" thing, but even more with concerns about not being related to my child(ren). After lots of thinking and talking with my wife, we first agreed to ask a first cousin of mine if he would be our donor. (That would keep me at least a little related.) That didn't pan out, but that experience helped crystallize for me what really did and didn't matter to me about fatherhood, and though being genetically related was on the list, it was pretty far down below other more important things. We chose anonymous donor sperm together and had a failed cycle of IVF converted to IUI. Turns out we need donor eggs, too, which was easier for both of us to accept because we'd already faced a lot of the same issues for donor sperm. While waiting our turn, I got a second opinion from a UR who specialized in male fertility, who gave me a better chance (~30% vs. <5% from my first UR) of finding sperm with micro-TESE, so we planned to try it for the next cycle (mostly for peace of mind), but had donor sperm on hand that we fully expected to use since the odds weren't great of finding any sperm to extract. They found some after all (22, to be exact), and my twin daughters are a few feet away from me in their swings as I write this. I feel incredibly lucky and fortunate that I got to be the genetic father, but I truly believe I'd be a proud, lucky father even if it had taken donor sperm to get here. In a way, it did.

[bostonyankee]

Azoodude, I have read many of your posts, and I think you have a lot of good things to say. Also, I think you hit it right on the head with counseling. I just want to make clear though, that yes, betrayal and trust issues have been in place, but asbolutely not in regards to my wife. She is, in fact, the strongest person that I have ever known.

[AllDeliveriesNoBaby]

I agree with AzooDude! In some ways I can't help but feel that your trust/betrayal issues are there with your current wife (even if not at all caused by her) if the images that come to your mind are of other men's orgasms and their sperm in her. It isn't that I am trying to doubt you, but I know that these things are extremely intertwined with your hurt from the past, as was my husband's with me.

I am going to keep you in my . I hope you find whatever answer brings you peace.

[bostonyankee]

Originally Posted by AllDeliveriesNoBaby

I agree with AzooDude! In some ways I can't help but feel that your trust/betrayal issues are there with your current wife (even if not at all caused by her) if the images that come to your mind are of other men's orgasms and their sperm in her.

who knows....as i said before i do not have the trust issues, etc, with my wife, but what can I say, this donor thing scares the daylights out of me.

Think of it this way: if a good friend of yours was a rape victim, and the thought of coupling with another man scared her, no one would say 'ah, get over it, just do it to make the guy happy' right? Well, here, I will admit, I went thought an emotional rape in my first marriage. So yeah, the undeniable fact is that I would have a hard time with another man fathering a child with my wife. And I do not care how anyone tries to sugar coat it, that is exactly what it would be.

How do I know that, after dropping my wife off from being inseminated with another man's sperm, that I might not drive off and do something crazy? I am reading more and more on the topic and some of the stories from husbands who had to sit by while another man's sperm were injected into the body of the woman they love, breaks my heart in two. I simply do not know. Nor do I particularly care to find out. As it stands right now, in a couple weeks we will meet with my doc and determine the results of the work-ups he's had done on me, According to him, this will tell us if my body actually makes serm, or if it can, or not.

At the moment I am filled with hrage that we have to go through this. Neither my wife nor I have done anything remotely deserving of this trip into our own private hell.

[md08]

I wanted to say that my husband felt theexact same way. We learned in january that he had very low count and 99% were no good.

He did tell me to leave him as he just felt terrible. I mentioned donor sperm but he felt like you did. I will say that I actually dint feel bad for myself at all. My heart ached for what he was going through. I felt bad for HIM. A woman who loves her husband is not ashamed or angry with this. Would you be upset if it were her? Doubtful

Im VERY sorry to hear about your last wife. Just remember that being a dad doesnt always mean you had to "make" the embryo. You just have to LOVE it

We are going to try IVF and even if you produce 0 sperm, I have heard they can still surgically retrieve some from you!!