[kktrumpbour]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here, thanks for all your stories. Today my husband received our second ICSI BFN. I was hoping to hear stories about how many full rounds of ICSI members had to go through before getting pregnant. Does anyone know of couples who went through 3+ rounds of ICSI before getting pregnant? We are weighing our options and trying to gauge where we are. I think my husband is worried that as we near our third attempt, we have little chance of succeeding. Here are our details:



Me: 34, possible short luteal phase, no other known issues aside from OHSS reactions
Husband: 45, low motility and low count but sperm present.

12/2012 - FET, 1 blastocyst and 1 lower grade embryo transferred from 10/2012 cycle. BFN

10/2012 - ICSI cycle, 16 eggs retrieved, 10 fertilized, 2 embryos remaining after 5 day growth. Both embryos are frozen when moderate/severe OHSS reactions requires 3 days in hospital.

9/2012 - FET, grade A & grade B embryo transferred from 1/2010 ICSI cycle. BFN

1/2010 - ICSI cycle. 19 eggs retrieved, 12 fertilize, 2 remain after 5 day growth in lab. Moderate to severe OHSS reaction requires freezing embryos. I break my arm severely necessitating 2 years of surgery & rehab before going back.

9/2007 - regular IVF cycle attempted on minimal stimulant drugs (Clomid). Rescue ICSI performed on 2 eggs after they don't fertilize in Petri dish. Transferred. BFN. Male factor diagnosis.

9/2006 - 11/2006: 3 IUI attempts all BFN

[Gigi3]

I have this exact same question. We are planning to try for the first time with ICSI in July, also with male infertility. I hope people respond.

[cubby14]

My dh has severe oligospermia, so we had to do ICSI for all of our IVFs. For our first one we only had a few eggs and a few sperm, and we got pregnant, but miscarried. We got pregnant on IVF number 3 and have a beautiful little boy.

Good luck!

[babyhope2012]

We have pretty bad male factor (we would get only 500,000 post wash at the most). We got pregnant on our second IVF. I am not sure if it is male factor to blame for having to do 2 IVFs. I think my follicles might have been too big at the time of trigger of my first IVF. Also, I started my period 23 days before beta so either my progesterone was too high at trigger or my progesterone supplementation was insufficient.

In June 2012 IVF group many ladies with male factor got pregnant on the first try.

You can help male factor with vitamins and life style changes (little alcohol, exercise).

Good luck to you, ladies.

[lucyddr]

We failed ICSI with my eggs and donor eggs (2 cycles). If the issue is purely low counts and mobility, IVF with ICSI for male factor is highly successful!

If the issues are related more to sperm DNA and very poor morphology (like less than 1%), then it likely won't work. The best test (outside of CCS/PGD) is making sure you push all embryos to blasts. That's where my DH's sperm totally bombed.

Best of luck!!! It sounds like you have a great chance of success!!!

[ahhny]

Kktrumpbour: As you can see from my signature we got pregnant the first ICSI. My husband had a vasectomy and then a reversal, but developed 95% antisperm antibodies so it was either ICSI or donor sperm for us.

In looking at your history it appears you have gotten some good numbers of eggs and a normal number of them fertilized. The are three things that sticks out to me as possible culprits.

1.) is that it appears you only had 2 embryos make it to day 5 which is a little odd to me considering the number you had fertilize. Though I guess that depends on if they were looking for one only to freeze as those have to pass greater criterion so they make it through a thaw to be transferred. So if it was the greater criterion that caused the low number left to freeze then this isn't the issue, but if none of them except two made it to day 5 then I would suspect the lab culture that is used since if the lab isn't using the best/newest culture then the embryo's aren't fed well and thus don't make it. The higher quality cultures are relatively new so there are still labs using the older cultures since they haven't switched yet. If this is the case then simply switching labs (which may require switching Docs) could make the difference. Might want to do some research to see what your lab uses compared to others with high marks.

2.) Another culprit could be sperm DNA because my understanding is that the first couple of days past fertilization the egg's DNA is what progresses the embryo, but about half way through the sperm DNA takes over and continues the progression so if you have plenty of good embryo's on day 3, but not day 5 then it could be a sperm DNA factor. There are some things you can do about this, but I am not sure exactly what. I do recall reading about it somewhere though so you might want to ask your Doc about it and maybe do some research.

3.) Lastly, your issue could be very simple in that maybe a fresh cycle would work better for you, assuming the criterion for choosing embryo's to freeze weeded out other potential good embryo's that if transferred fresh would have taken, but instead due to having to freeze took that option away from you. Also, my understanding is that on average it takes 2.5 IVF's in order to net a pregnancy (I assume those are fresh cycles, but not sure) and since you are on your 3rd maybe this one will be it for you since you have hit that mark.

Hope this helps!
Wishing you the very best!

[Gigi3]

This wasn't my question at all. But thanks for the replies. I have hope that we can make it through ICSI. DH had less than 300k postwash the first time. They had to wash b/c they couldn't find any unwashed! But his 2nd SA after using RE's recommendations on vitamins, showed 1.5mil unwashed. That was only after about 1 1/2 months on the vitamins. So..

Thanks ladies!

[kktrumpbour]

I really appreciate all the replies and encouraging advice!!

I'm considering having DH undergo DNA assay. I'm not sure if that will change our options, but it might be nice to know where we stand. Anyone do this?

I hadn't heard about the new v old cultures, so thanks for the tip off. Unfortunately, fresh transfers are an unlikely option since I tend to come down with pretty bad cases of OHSS. Last time I was hospitalized. Gained and lost 10 lbs of liquid around my ovaries in one week.

Thank you thank you thank you again for the fast replies. Helps so much coming off a negative pregnancy test.

[Helpnhand]

My thoughts:

1) Everyone is different, so do not compare number of cycles before becoming pregnant.

2) It is very apparent that MF is the main problem. This is a prime example since you have lower numbers developing to blast. It is assumed that if nothing develops past the "normal" cleavage stage and develop to a morula or blast the sperm did not do it's job/function. This is why couples have less blast when MF is the main problem.

3) I went to a meeting this week showing FET's MAY be better for transfers because there are less drugs in the body and can prep the uterus more.

4) PLEASE remember all labs are different, so development to day 5 can vary in terms lab quality and/or embryo quality.

Good luck either way, but please take this all in stride.

[Gigi3]

Originally Posted by kktrumpbour

I really appreciate all the replies and encouraging advice!!

I'm considering having DH undergo DNA assay. I'm not sure if that will change our options, but it might be nice to know where we stand. Anyone do this?

I hadn't heard about the new v old cultures, so thanks for the tip off. Unfortunately, fresh transfers are an unlikely option since I tend to come down with pretty bad cases of OHSS. Last time I was hospitalized. Gained and lost 10 lbs of liquid around my ovaries in one week.

Thank you thank you thank you again for the fast replies. Helps so much coming off a negative pregnancy test.

My DH went through all the testing. I guess it could help if something is wrong and they can work with it. But all his tests came back normal. So we will never know what is causing it. I can tell you there was some improvement with the vitamins the RE is making him take. Good luck. We'll do our first ICSI in July. Pray for us.

[kktrumpbour]

Originally Posted by Gigi3

My DH went through all the testing. I guess it could help if something is wrong and they can work with it. But all his tests came back normal. So we will never know what is causing it. I can tell you there was some improvement with the vitamins the RE is making him take. Good luck. We'll do our first ICSI in July. Pray for us.

Gigi3,

You are in my prayers. All the best!!

[SandyM77]

Hi Gigi3,

My husband and I went through this exact process. I have no fertility issues, great ovarian reserve for my age as well as hormone levels at 35 yrs of age, my hubby however (39) has low motility/morphology and we tried IUI so many times and went with IVF. Don't let them do rescue ICSI, just do ICSI right off the bat, they did rescue ICSI with us and we lost 3 good eggs because they waited 24hrs before doing ICSI. Then only 4 made it to blastocyst stage, with 2 really good and 2 good. we transferred 2 (now waiting) and the other 2 we opted for freezing, and only 1 made it through freezing.

For a bit more money and since you are already spending enough, might as well get the best outcome!

Originally Posted by Gigi3

I have this exact same question. We are planning to try for the first time with ICSI in July, also with male infertility. I hope people respond.

[Gigi3]

Originally Posted by SandyM77

Hi Gigi3,

My husband and I went through this exact process. I have no fertility issues, great ovarian reserve for my age as well as hormone levels at 35 yrs of age, my hubby however (39) has low motility/morphology and we tried IUI so many times and went with IVF. Don't let them do rescue ICSI, just do ICSI right off the bat, they did rescue ICSI with us and we lost 3 good eggs because they waited 24hrs before doing ICSI. Then only 4 made it to blastocyst stage, with 2 really good and 2 good. we transferred 2 (now waiting) and the other 2 we opted for freezing, and only 1 made it through freezing.

For a bit more money and since you are already spending enough, might as well get the best outcome!

We later found out DH has some form of CAVD b/c he's a CF carrier. I say "some form" b/c he's not completely lacking a vas deferens, since some (extremely small amount) sperm does come out. Geneticist said one may be missing or they are not fully developed. We are trudging through and still plan on ICSI in July. Next appt in March. Provera and u/s in April. Start BC in May.