[bino]

[quote=Squito]I hear you! I've been distracted at work all day. It really would have been good to be super-productive today, since I'll be out tomorrow, but c'est la vie. I beat myself up about so many things -- I'm just going to have to let this one go.


Justone: How great that you have friends you can talk to about IF. It can be so isolating to go through this. It must be wonderful to have friends who can relate. I've only told one friend the bare basics of our situation. She's an old law school friend who is my age, single (but in a relationship) and totally career focused. Needless to say, I've scared the heck out of her with what we're going through. Like me, she believed everyone who said you could wait and have it all.

Bino: I take D-3, B-6, CoQ10 and L-Arginine in addition to a prenatal, plus wheatgrass a few times a week and acupucture.


SQUITO - You are doing your friend a favor by "scaring" her!

I had a very high powered career; and completely believed that I could choose to have a baby whenever it suited me. BIG LESSON.

I am now passionate about letting people know those are lies! My last boss actually dinged me my on performance review b/c I got married (at 37). "My new life" she called it. Something about it hit me hard, and I really thought about it....I quit 45 days later. Although I lied to her about why. (Can't burn a bridge).

I have friends who are under 35 and I warn them all the time! I don't want them to have to go through what I am enduring. Two friends took my advice, and sure enough, they have some issues. But they are young enough to try to take action while the odds are in their favor. (Thank God!)

All these hollywood'ers having kids in the 40's, and popping out twins. They don't tell people it's ART. (WE all know the % are that they are!) Jeeze, Mariah Carey was going to my fertility clinic!!

These "baby bumps" that aren't pregnancies.... IVF drugs!!!!

I applaud you for scaring your friend, you might save her from this!

I'm sooooo passionate about this. I really feel I was misinformed. I have been trying to think of a way to reach out to these women, and educate them and to de-bunk the popular myth that you can have it all whenever you want.

It's funny, I met a friend of a friend at a BBQ who is 41. She had twins at 40. NOBODY knew or suspected she had IVF. I knew immediately! I pulled her aside and asked. (I wanted her RE's name!) She readily admitted it. She then told everyone at the BBQ, and they were shocked! You should've seen their faces!!!!! People REALLY believe that getting pregnant later in life is NORMAL!!

We have to educate! I'd love to find a way to make this my life's work! I'm all for having a great career, standing on your own two feet.... but our generation has been misinformed about having it all.

How many of you believed these lies and thought you could get pregnant whenever you wanted to?

[bino]

Originally Posted by 3rdtimesthecharm

Bino-

Here’s a bit of a run down on the stuff that I listed (most is cut and paste to give an idea about the function).

Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine)
Together with zinc, B6 is essential for the formation of female sex hormones and the proper functioning of estrogen and progesterone. A deficiency causes the ovaries to shut down production of progesterone which leads to estrogen dominance. B6 is used to treat luteal phase defects because of it encourages the production of progesterone. It also has shown to improve fertility rates if taken over a 6 month period.

Coenzyme Q10
Important for energy production. Levels of CoQ10 are lower in a woman who has experienced a recent miscarriage. ICSI fertilization rates may rise when taking this supplement. It also improves blood flow.

Resveratrol/Pycogenol (Resveratrol Plus contains the Pine Bark Extract which is what is in Pycogenol)…
Resveratrol is found in red wine and is believed to be the key ingredient responsible for red wine’s ability to lower cholesterol, reduce heart disease and fight obesity. Some research also shows that resveratrol could be linked to a reduced risk of inflammation and blood clotting. Resveratrol is thought to be a strong antioxident and if it does have all the anti-aging and health benefits that some researchers claim, it might be able to restore my diminishing egg quality. One of the SIRM docs believes it has the potential to support ovarian/oocyte well-being based on its ability to stimulate enzymes key to the process of meiosis (egg maturation) as well as the data which shows it exerts a protective effect on ovarian reserve (in mice exposed to environmental toxins linked to cigarette smoking. {See: J Clin Invest. 2007 Dec;117(12):3971-8.} Resveratrol has the added attraction of being able to stimulate enzymes called histone deacetylases which are molecules integral to the proces of meiosis in which an egg undergoes a split to lose half its chromosmes in preparation to being fertilized by the sperm. If this split occurs assymetrically then the egg is chromosmally abnormal or aneuploid and the resulting embryo is destined to fail. Pycogenol is another super antioxidant that SIRM recommends.

Cinnamon: I know that a lot of the ladies get the recommendation for cinnamon from their acupuncturist. It is supposed to assist with the metabolism of sugars and blood flow.

Greens: Overall the leafy greens are just supposed to be good for you health, but I'd heard that Spirulina, Chlorella and Wheat Grass are beneficial. I was taking greens from Whole Foods (5 pills a day), but I’ve run out and I don’t want to buy more…partly because of cost but also because it contains more than 50% of the RDA of Vitamin A…my doc told me not to take extra Vitamin A. So I will be returning to the old stand-by of NaKed’s Green Machine because it has Spirulina, Chlorella, Barley Grass and Wheat Grass (plus the goodness of other greens like spinach).

The power of green whole foods is essential for all day energy, greater focus under stress, sense of well-being, strengthened immune system, fewer food cravings and optimum synergistic balance of essential nutrients for total health. Green whole foods contain antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, amino acids, active enzymes, bioflavinoids, chlorophyll and other phytonutrients necessary for optimial cellular metabolism, repair and protection! These ingredients contain the most powerful combination of nutrients ever known in any grain, herb or food. They contain almost all of the vitamins, minerals, proteins and enzymes necessary for the human diet, plus chlorophyll.

Spirulina Blue Green Algae: Spirulina possesses a complete protein richer than steak, abundant organically complex minerals, a wide variety of essential vitamins, and many beneficial enzymes. Spirulina is more than just a food. As with Chlorella it has been shown to be valuable with almost every aspect of health. These necessities are bio-available which means that they are easily assimilated throughout the digestive tract, giving instant access to vital nutrients.Because of algae's high chlorophyll and high nutritional content it is an excellent part of a cleansing program.

Chlorella Green Algae: Chlorella's tough cell wall protects the valuable nucleus inside. When it is harvested it is instantly dried and the cell walls are gently cracked open. The nutrients inside retain full potency. Once in your body, the cracked open cells release their valuable nutrients. Because it is so easy to digest, your cells get the full benefit of this nutritional powerhouse. These necessities are bio-available which means that they are easily assimilated throughout the digestive tract, giving instant access to vital nutrients. The algae provides intestinal nourishment and has a soothing and healing effect on the mucous lining. It works to detoxify and purify our system.

Barley Grass and Wheat Grass: Eating barley and wheat grass is like eating a plate of green vegetables. These cereal grasses, are harvested young and are ecologically grown in nutrient rich soil. They are approximately 25% protein and contains all the essential amino acids, concentrated vitamins, minerals and fiber. They have been shown to increase our overall health by reducing intestinal putrefaction and maintaining healthy blood another important component of cleansing.

The low dose aspirin is supposed to help reduce blood clots that would potentially inhibit implantation.

DHA is supposed to help with fetal development. Last cycle I started taking it part way through and it was the first cycle that none of my embryos arrested prior to the 3dt. I think that the DHA helped with that, so I have been taking more of that this cycle.

I’ve also considered taking L-Argenine…I just never started taking it.

I will definitely pick up some D3. Everyone seems to be sick here and I have no desire to pick up the crap they are carrying. I am actually carrying hand sanitizer everywhere right now.

The doctor told me not to take DHEA. I’ve read conflicting reports on it, but I know there are lots of women on the forums that swear by it. At this point, I feel like a lot of this stuff is hoping and guessing. That makes me think that the power of positive thinking is even more important…I feel like if I believe these supplements will help me, then whether or not the research supports, it will help. I’m on try #4, so I might as well give it all.

I do get the joy of Lupron and BCPs…however, today was my last BCP, so I am thrilled!

I do wish that the docs would be more open about supplements that might help…I think it would keep us from taking things we aren’t supposed to. I was told don’t take anything that could effect estrogen or testosterone…ok, great, I’ll stop eating soy and cabbage…can you give me something more? So I really wish they would clue us in.

YOU ROCK BABY!!! Thank you soooooo much for educating me! Love you for that!

And you know what..... I'm going to pass that on to my RE (from me). I too wish they'd take a stance on this stuff!

I told him what I'm taking, and the answer.... can't hurt.

WHAT???????????????

[3rdtimesthecharm]

Originally Posted by bino

YOU ROCK BABY!!! Thank you soooooo much for educating me! Love you for that!

And you know what..... I'm going to pass that on to my RE (from me). I too wish they'd take a stance on this stuff!

I told him what I'm taking, and the answer.... can't hurt.

WHAT???????????????

Don't you just want to smack them sometimes? I really wanted to when I got this past cycle review because the doc that called me was the one that told me previously I had an 80% chance of getting pregnant if I continued with IVF (not saying how many cycles it would take)...during the review she told me that I just needed to go for donor eggs at this point. WHAT? I'm 33 and I need donor eggs already? I have a hard time believing that! That's why I insisted on switching protocols. I actually called her on it over the phone. I'm sure she thought I was a b*%$#, but I wanted her to feel an ounce of the emotional response they cause us. I've really come to believe that the whole thing is a craps shoot and you just need to right protocol, the right diet and the right attitude. It might not happen right away, but eventually, it will happen.

[justone]

3rd times-thank you so much for tht info on all the supplememnts. As I'm about to start stims probably too late for me but i think i'll grab d3 (I've never even heard of it)and naked green machine might land in my grocery cart. i'm assuming you can get d3 at a GNC? this is also our last cycle. it is self pay and as much as I regret it, we have hit our limit. We actually went past our limit but technically if there is nothing wrong with us, it can't hurt to take some of these things going forward if this cycle doesn't work. It would be nice for RE's to get on board with this stuff. My RE actually recomends no supplements except prenatals as there is not enough research.

bino-I hear you with the waiting. i never thought it would be an issue for us and we thought it would be better to wait for a lot of reasons. What a regret!!We are now on this time line that I never thought we would be on. My mom has even asked if I'd consider moving to a state that covers infertility. I am too involved and invested ni my career to consider this, but had I know this 10 years ago, it might have swayed me as I looked at benefit packages. I guess my best thought at this time is that ultimately I was able to do clomid, iui, and ivf's cycles that some are just not able to do. If this isn't successful, at least I can look bacl with minimal regrets that I wasn't able to take the next step. doesn't mean I'm not going to ball my eyes out if I get a but hopefully it won't come to that. btw did the RE tell you why he wanted you to take aspirin or is it just there protocol?

on a side note, my family knows we are doing this, and I have sworn my mom not to tell any one. Her response was of course she wouldn't but i would be surprised to learn of all of our family friends ho have IVF babies. Makes me feel like this is such a problem but it is so hidden b/c really it is so embarassing to not be able to carry out a function that is supposed to be so easy and natural. I wish it wasn't something that was kept so secretive. It would make it so much easier sometimes

[jp1981]

Just wanted to wish Squito & Sam lots of luck for tomorrow and your way!!!

3rdtimes-its much easier for an RE to recommend donor eggs instead of take the time to analize your cycles and come up with a POA. I agree with you that it will happen eventually just not right away for some of us and we just have to keep remembering that. Right now I cannot immagine getting a and what it would be like but I am sure one day I will be looking back on these days and think that every IVF frustration was worth it. I am fortunate that my insurance covers unlimitted IVF and given my age I dont plan on stopping until it works (as crazy as I may sound).

I think we are all being healthy enough to get a I just wish I had an explanation why its so hard for some of us. Sometimes I see people in public with kids and cant help but think that "it cant be that hard" when you see the people having them.

Is anyone being hard on their DH about being healthy during IVF cycle? DH is healthy overall, eats fine, has an occasional beer or two on weekends but I cant help but stress to him how much his role also matters based on the research I have done. I told him that what once we get a he can take the hottest shower he wants and drink all the beer he wants!!!

[Genevieve]

Squito & SouthhamptonS-- Good Luck with you ER today ! for lots of good eggies!!

I almost folded and POAS this morning, but then held strong...tomorrow is another story . I don't remember the wait being this agonizing last time. Hopefully my embies are still snuggled tight in there .

[bino]

I can't wait to hear all about your ER's! I'm EXCITED!!!!!!!!

AND for you both!!!

[SouthhamptonS]

Hi Ladies

Thanks for all the well wishes. It helps All went well today. We have 16 eggies . Now I am just that they are healthy and mature. I will not get Fert report till Thursday afternoon. UGH!!! So the wait is on Thanks for the support.

Genevieve - Wow you are so strong. for the am can't wait to hear of your .

Bino - Thanks It can't hurt. I have heard that as well. Taking a part in the process, I think also helps with your state of mind. It is hard to be so passive in the process. I like the proactive approach. Through my IF journey I have tried lots of things. This board is a great source of information

JP- I am on DH like white on rice. He hates it but it is for the good of the endevor. Now the hard part JP no word till Thursday. UGH! I hate that RSC does not inform till the night prior to ET.

Justone - DH and I had not told anyone up till this point and he just gave in and let me tell my sister. That was a big battle. Having a small support system is wonderful. I do think it can be stressful if too many people know.

3rdtime - When do you head out again? Have you always not eated red meat?

Squito - Hope all went well. Can't wait to hear.

Samantha

[3rdtimesthecharm]

justone: some of the stuff I think it is never too late to start such as DHA, cinnamon and Coq-10. The greens themselves are healthy too, so that can’t hurt either. My clinic has always said not to take supplements. I have beaten them up to the point where they finally said that supplements were ok as long as they do not have an effect on estrogen or testosterone. Foods can have an impact there as well…like soy has estrogen precursors and cabbage has the precursors to testosterone. With my E2 levels, I am glad to stay away from anything that could make those go higher!

jp: I agree that it is easier for the docs to say go with donor. It doesn’t take additional effort on their part to delve into the problem at that point…which frustrates me! I mean, we pay all this money for someone that is a specialist…let’s put the specialist part to good use!!

Genevieve: Stay strong! Those pee sticks can be very mean!! I hope that tomorrow morning you get your BFP!!!

Squito: I hope that your ER went well today! I am excited to hear your results!!

South: Yeah for 16 eggs that is excellent!! I’m sorry that they make you wait so long for the fert report…that just seems like cruel and unusual punishment!! I’m actually going home again this weekend (Thursday) because I have some temporary duty where DH works…that makes for bonus time together!! Then I go on Monday for my baseline…it’s getting close! As far as not eating red meat goes…it was a decision I made at around 17 or 18. I wasn’t a big fan of the taste…so I opted to stop eating it. It made it easier when visiting relatives to say flat out I didn’t eat red meat or pork than to try and explain why I was only eating part of the dinner they prepared. Although, it has made for some challenges with DH and I…he always forgets to mention dietary restrictions when we go to someone’s house for dinner. I feel bad for the hosts because then they are not prepared…you would think that after over 13 years together that he would have it down, but he still doesn’t.

[SouthhamptonS]

Just an update

Waiting on

Anj70

BCP or Estrogen


Lupron
JUSTONE 10/12
3rdtimesthecharm 10/13
JP1981 10/16
Bino 10/17


Stims (start date) Grow follies grow!
Squito 10/7
Southhampton 10/9
RSF_76 10/17
Bino 10/27
Mel78 10/27
Hopeful77 10/30

ER
Genevieve 10/07
Squito 10/20
Southhampton 10/20


ET/FET
Genevieve 10/12
Samantha (Southhampton) 10/23




Waiting for BETA (PUPO)


Pregnant



Needs a Hug
__________________

[SouthhamptonS]

3rdtime- Thanks. You would think that he would remember that by now. LOL Men! So you are so close baseline on Monday . So you will be starting stims next week . How many days after baseline do you usually start?
Samantha

[bino]

Originally Posted by SouthhamptonS

Hi Ladies

Thanks for all the well wishes. It helps All went well today. We have 16 eggies . Now I am just that they are healthy and mature. I will not get Fert report till Thursday afternoon. UGH!!! So the wait is on Thanks for the support.

Genevieve - Wow you are so strong. for the am can't wait to hear of your .


Samantha

Way to Samantha! If I'm ready correctly that is your largest ER retrieval to date! That ticks me off that they make you wait to hear! Does that mean they always do 3dt?

Anyways! I'm excited to hear that you had a great yield today! Looks like the "numbers" are in your favor! Praying for those little eggs to turn into beautiful, strong, and determined embies/blasts!

[SouthhamptonS]

Robin - Thanks. This is my 2nd largest ER but the largest in 3 cycles. I have never had more than 12 mature so if that happens this cycle I will be blessed. All but 1 of my ET have been 3dt. Last time I tried a 2dt but now back to 3 again. I had my son with a 3dt so I know they work for me I am just that I might see an 8 cell this time I have not seen one of those since the cycle with my son. How about you what day do you plan to do?

Samantha

[Squito]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for your well-wishes today! You guys are awesome. We got 11 eggs. I'm thrilled with the number -- it's almost double the 6 we got last time. Unfortunately, 2 were abnormal and another 2 were immature, so we have 7 that may fertilize. that all 7 will come through. We'll get a fert report by 3:00 PST tomorrow.

Samantha: 16 is wonderful!! I can't believe they make you wait two days for the fert report. I'd be going bonkers.

3rdtime: Great summary of the vitamins and supplements. I stopped eating meat as a teenager, too, but I cut out all meat. One of the biggest changes for me in the last few months was to incorporate meat back into my diet to increase my protein intake and not rely so heavily on soy to do it. I have high estrogen (sounds like you may too), so more soy seemed like a bad idea. I'm always looking for recipes that incorporate meat in smaller pieces, because it makes the transition easier, so I'm really looking forward to your chicken chili recipe when you are able to post it.

Bino: I completely understand your desire to educate others and dispel the myths around fertility. There's so much I wish I would have known years ago. It is funny -- once you see behind the curtain, you realize how many people, stars and otherwise, are having children with the help of ART.

Genevieve: One day closer to beta! If you end up POAS, that you see a glorious .

JP: Earlier this year I was all over DH so he would understand how important his behavior is too. He's actually a complete health freak, but he does a lot of cycling (300-400 miles a week) and I was so worried about those stupid bike shorts. I backed off only after his swimmers turned out to be super performers. My take away, though, is that it's difficult for them to understand the connection as well as we do, even with all of the explanations. It seems like people associate getting pregnant so much more with the female, even though it's an equal effort. On a different topic, it's wonderful that you have unlimited fertility coverage! I think I'd keep trying forever if I didn't have to pay out of pocket.

Justone: I'm trying to stay positive, but have a back up plan. In that vein, I'm hoping that this cycle works for you, but if it doesn't, I'd encourage you to talk with a traditional chinese medicine practitioner if you haven't already to get the perspective of someone who believes that supplements and herbs can make a difference. The acupuncturist I've been seeing (she's associated with my RE's office, but I see her outside of the office because she's not allowed to discuss supplements, etc. there) has had a number of patients give up on ART -- mainly for financial reasons -- but go on to get pregnant with certain lifestyle changes. DH and I probably have one more cycle in us because we self-pay too, but if that fails, I plan to keep taking vitamins and trying on our own. Sorry, I feel like I'm being preachy and that's not the way I mean this at all -- just sharing our back-up plan in case it's helpful.

Hope everyone else is well.

[3rdtimesthecharm]

Squito: Yup, I'm a member of the high estrogen crew. Last cycle mine actually got up to 6500. The only cycle it didn't soar was when I took Royal Jelly (without telling the RE) and then I ended up with about half of my follies being empty. That would have been ok if I'd had great fertilization and beautiful embies...but they sucked too. No more RJ for me. You did awesome today!!! I'm jealous that you get to leave the RE's office knowing how many eggs were mature. Will your RE's office try to mature the two that didn't quite make it? My RE doesn't, but I hear that some do. Seven mature is excellent! We'll all be on pins and needles to hear your fert report tomorrow and Sam's on Thursday!! Wow, then we get to follow that up with Genvieve's beta on Friday...you guys have us off to a great start for excitement. Rest up well this evening and let DH pamper you! You did great!!