Hi, I just found this forum today and have been reading all I can. You all are so encouraging!

Here's my story: I just turned 44. My husband and I have been trying to conceive naturally for 2 years(that's how long we've been committed to each other) He turns 44 in December. We're on month 4 of using the clear plan computer and ovulation happens every month and we have been making the most of that time. No pregnancy yet. I was married for 7 years in my 30's to a man I realized very early on I did not want as the father of my children (did not take care of the 2 he already had ) So I chose not to try for a baby then and used bc the entire marriage.

After all I've read, at my age I'm not willing to put up with all the invasive tests, drugs and spend the $$$ for them to tell me I'm too old. Our insurance does not cover ANY infertility treatment... does not even cover annual physicals! Plus the possibility of Downs is very high as well. I have agreed to go thru some acupuncture treatments, but only because they will be theraputic regardless of if we concieve or not.

My husband thinks I'm not trying very hard for a natural child. He's been tested and was normal. I have no problem at all with adopting, and I would even consider an older child as well as an infant. He can't get past the "my genes are better than anyone elses" phase. Won't discuss adoption and was thrilled that I was at least going in for acupuncture.

He's really a wonderful guy, has worked in social services most of his adult life, and some of that time he worked directly with kids in crisis in a group home. He's absolutely fabulous with kids! But because of all the really messed up ones he's seen in his career, he does not want to consider adoption. No question he wants a family of more than us 2. Any suggestions or ideas you may have on what may help our situation would be much appreciated! Karen

Sweetie, you're _44_. The stats on you conceiving are pretty low--particularly with a 44 year old husband. Sure it's possible, but you'd have to go to heroic efforts, for like a 10 percent chance of success. I'd put my money on adoption.

My age was strike three in a two strike fertility inning and I was 37. I didn't think the stats then were good enough.

So it's not a matter of not trying -- mother nature is against you even with fertility treatments. Maybe you should bring your husband to adoption events. If he keeps seeing happy parents with healthy kids he might start to think differently.

Good luck!

Hi Kabri!

I'm new around here too!

I think you are probably trying very hard to get pregnant, and it just isn't happening! I can tell you from personal experience that ovaries are very persnickety little things! I'm only 27, and they've already died out on me!

At the age of 44, odds are low that you will conceive on your own. (I know, it really stinks that we have this 'expiration date' sitting on our eggs). You are probably ovulating every month, just as your moniter shows you, but the quality of those eggs is probably not the best... and when egg quality isn't good, nature kind of takes it course, and the egg will not fertilize, even if it is met by a feisty sperm!

I don't think your chances of conceiving naturally are all that great. In light of that, your choices are adoption, IVF using donor eggs with hubby's sperm, or embryo adoption/donation.

Is your husband saying an educated 'no' to adoption... Or do you think the unknown is more the problem? For me, adoption was initially alarming... the media paints it terribly sometimes. If you and hubby can learn about adoption together, he may find that he isnt so 'scared' about the process. And if the process is more comfortable, the notion of adoption might seem more do-able!

Of course, if your husband has put his foot down on the idea of adopting, and that's all there is too it... I think you have your answer. It's very hard to truely convince someone in that situation... And even if you succeed in getting a 'maybe' out of him, that doesn't mean his heart is in it. And if his heart isn't in it, you shouldn't pursue it. In that event, these are your fertility options:


Donor egg IVF is an option that was given to me... But, it is very expensive (20 grand) and odds of success are only about 50 percent. Actually, it really is not all that invasive for the recipient of the embryos (you). The hardest procedure is the egg retrieval, and only the donor undergoes that. YOu simply have to take some hormones (some via injection) to prep your uterus, the embryos are transferred into your uterus (very easy) and you wait to see if it worked.

My husband and I decided to pursue embryo adoption. Embryo adoption takes place when one couple with left over frozen embryos from a previous IVF cycle donates those embryos to you, an infertile couple. As with the donor egg IVF cycle, your lining is prepped via hormones, the embryos are thawed, and trasnferred to your uterus. Hopefully, a pregnancy results. E

Embryo adoption is much less expensive... the process can cost a minimum of 2500 using embryos donated through your clinic, to 8,500 when going through an agency like Snowflakes Embryo Adoption. Odds are that you would have to go through a few attempts before it worked, but it's possible.

I hope this is helpful, and that I've made some sense in all my rambling! I wish you all the best !

Stella

I am going to play devils advocate here in two ways. One, Downs syndrome is a risk at age 44, but not that high of one. The biggest risk is your habits, if you smoke, have stress and drink alcohol at all. You probably can conceive but miscarriage is a good possibility at your age. Your body has to be at top health.

Second is my concern with the following.

__________________________________________________

quote:
"He can't get past the "my genes are better than anyone elses"
__________________________________________________

This set off alarms in my head! I understand your husbands thinking coming from his work and experience, but as an adult adoptee who endured a lifetime of cutting remarks to this effect, I have to speak my piece.

This is potentially dangerous to any adopted child. If he can't get past this thinking, I don't feel adoption is right for you. Let me explain...

As children, we receive unspoken and spoken messages from our parents. Through words, looks, body language and expressions such as sighs etc...and we know how these messages reflect us. We learn from you how acceptable and lovable we are in many ways.

That sort of attitude is really painful to live with as it cannot be hidden. My adoptive parents were very educated people, went to the best schools and had money. They were snobs and judgmental and felt their genes were superior. My adopted brother and I both endured overhearing our genetic failings and being directly told of it.

We grew up under mass contradiction, having it all but having to feel like second rate citizens, inferior and so lucky to be raised as we were, when coming from such peasant stock surely would have rendered us mere white trash had we been raised with our biological families.

I would suggest if you choose adoption that you first address this issue, it is an insideous thing that cuts deeply. And it cannot be easily dismissed especially if you get a problem child.

Best of luck

quote:
"He can't get past the "my genes are better than anyone elses"

This statement is a rough one! Seeing how he has worked in social services, I would think his heart should be a little softer to these children in unfortunate circumstances. If these are his true feelings, then I would not recommend adoption for the both of you.

At 44, your only options are fertility treatments. I went through the accupuncture course also, while it was relaxing, it did not help me conceive. I started fertility treatments at 31 and by 37, I was done. Mind you, my doctors never told me I couldn't concieve, but after 6 years, I wasn't willing to take a chance on starting my family. I believe those fertility centers will never tell you, we can't do anymore for you. They will take your money, chase your dreams and in the end you are left with a big hole in your banking account, an emotional wreck and no baby in your arms.

You seem to be in a no win situation. My heart goes out to you.

First, a lesson in ovulation predictors whether they be the pee-on-a-stick and read the window kind, or the pee-on-a-paper-strip and read a monitor kind.

None of them can tell you if you are actually ovulating or not. All they can do is read your hormone levels and see if the levels are such that it would cause a normally-fertile woman to ovulate. The fact is, you may need a higher level of some of those hormones before your eggs are released. Regardless of what the monitor says, it IS possible that your eggs are not actually being released.

It is also possible, as another poster already said, that your eggs are not of a high enough quality. Eggs age, and the older you are the fewer good-quality eggs you'll have left. Even if your eggs are being released each month, the quality may not be high enough for the sperm to fertilize it. Or, even if they're fertilized, they may be dying before they can implant. There are very few 44 year old women getting pregnant, and age of thier eggs is the number one reason according to doctors.

There really isn't anything you can do to "try" to get pregnant, other than having sex at the proper time. No amount of willpower or wishing can force the egg and sperm to get together and create a viable embryo. What does your husband think you're not doing???

As for testing... the early stages of testing are not really invasive. For you, the first test at your age would likely determine if you are in perimenopause or not. That's one single blood draw w/ one single test. You can call your regular gyno to have that test done, and it wouldn't cost much. Women in perimenopause have different hormone levels, and need more ovulation hormones to cause ovulation than the average woman does. I*f that's what you're experiencing, at least you'd then know not to trust sticks and monitors anymore.

A blood draw of about 5 vials, and an HSG (similar to a pap smear with x-rays) are considered the first step in most fertility workups. They do cost a couple thousand dollars, though. (Mine totaled around $2,000 before my insurance took care of a chunk of it.) For me, they were enough to prove I'd need invasive fertility treatments. We chose not to go that route, but it was good to know the actual facts. I don't have to think about it anymore, I know my answers if anyone suggests we're not trying hard enough. It was also conclusive enough that we were able to focus on other ways of adding to our family. Perhaps your husband needs to hear it from a doctor - there's nothing you can do to "try harder". Even if you've spent all that money to hear "you're too old", it also means you've spent all that money to have your husband hear "a biological child is not possible". It may make him more willing to explore other options.

I wish you luck!

Thank you all for your replies! Soulwhisper, you make some very good points. My DH is so aware of how those messages can affect kids from what he's worked with over the years.... he just is not willing to consider it yet. Yes his heart goes out to the kids who are in rough situations that his agency helps, but that makes him want even more a child that is free from other people's bad parenting and baggage and bad habits (drugs/alcohol). While I am not adopted, I have some idea of what you must have gone thru with my own upbringing... It's tough when you are always given the message that you don't measure up. Thank you for contributing on this forum to help others NOT be parents like you had! Yes, I am healthy and alcohol is not an issue... a few glasses of wine a month is the most I ever drink. I am hoping I can find a Dr who will tell DH straight that our chances are extremely low. Thank you for the tip that fertility clinics probably won't do that because we are their source of income. I've done the research but he's not had time to do it. I'm going through now what most of you went through much younger... finally my life situation is right and stable and secure enough to be able to committ the rest of it to raising a child and having a family.

Please, don't tell someone they are in a no-win situation. This is very rarely the case. As far as the remark "He can't get past the "my genes are better than anyone else's," I certainly wouldn't go as far as to conclude that adoption may be out of the question. I think a lot of men feel this way about adoption initially. And I don't think it's really about the genes at all. It could be partially about an inferior complex on the man's behalf, deriving from a feeling of failure at not being able to impregnate a woman. Even if they (men) generally don't talk about these things as much as women do, that doesn't mean they don't feel these things. And it doesn't mean he wouldn't be a great parent to an adopted child. I think the remark about the genes also derives from fear of the unknown. It takes times to switch from the idea of having a bio child to having an adopted child. The first step is to accept the fact that you can't have bio children. I have heard a man say about adoption: "It's like letting a stranger into the house." His wife, who wanted to adopt, argued that it's not a coincidense which child you are assigned, that you and the child are destined to meet. Eventually, he came to see it the same way. Today, they are the parents of an adopted child, whom they both love with all of their hearts. He later told me that as soon as he saw the girl they adopted, "I knew she was mine." So anything is possible. Don't give up.

Hi Helene, thank you! My husband is an only child with a very difficult upbringing with an alcoholic dad and an imigrant mother who had difficulty speaking english and worked herself into exhaustion to feed them both. He wants his OWN child to do it right, or at least better, this time. I don't take offense at previous posts... I have a lot of faith that God will lead us to the right child or children. I know that if/when he makes the decision to pursue adoption, he will love that child no differently than a bio child. Karen

You are very right Helene regarding Kabri's husband's statement. As awful as those words sound here on an adoption board (where we are all becoming more educated, appreciative, and thus more sensitive about adoption), I don't think his sentiments are all that uncommon.

At the place I am now with adoption, I'm in love with the process. (Granted, I haven't experienced any negatives as of yet). So, to hear a statement like that is so totally contrary to where I am now. But, I can remember a time where I was VERY unsure, and TOTALLY against the idea of adoption. My husband as well!

And now, being less deranged by my infertility, and a little older, I see that Adoption was never the problem for me. Adoption symbolized letting go of my own fertility, and that's what I wasn't willing to do at the time (and hubby). So as much as I railed against adoption at one time, it had nothing to do with adoption... It was all about my fertility. (Does that make sense?)

So, it sounds to me Kabri as if your husband is still very focussed on your mutual fertility. If you are confronted with facts that force you to let go of your fertility, you and he might begin seeing adoption for what it really is.

I certainly wish my husband and I had seen adoption in it's true form before we were diagnosed... I would've probably lept willingly into the process much sooner. So, I think a lot of this is about educating yourself.

Stella

We have a long way to go... I must now 'prove' my infertility to my husband before he will seriously consider adoption. He says he won't rule it out, but it's not his preference. He does not get it that at 44, my chances of concieving are almost none. So we will waste/spend the money on testing. We discussed my age in detail when we first became committed. I guess he did not think it through. When I told him that I felt this was about "family, rather than pregnancy" he had no idea what I was talking about. The more we discuss it, the sadder I get. Adoption has never been an issue for me... I have no doubt I can love any child God leads us to. I spent my fertile years with the wrong man and now long to have a family with the right one.

thanks for letting me vent!

Everyone has great input. And this is one of the times in a good marriage where communication is most key. My story is long and I won't bore anyone but, in a nutshell I have been a birthmother and they are 19 and 20 now... and five years ago my second try at marriage I won the prince... At 37 with tied tubes it was not likely I would make my fatherless prince an heir. SO WE TALKED AND TALKED AND TALKED.

First we decided our "preferance" like most parents, would be to have genetic children. Who would not want this first? And we both had fear and concerns about adoption. Who would not have fear at first? It is a big decision, there are many issues that come with such a major decision in fact, not dealing with the greif and loss that a couple faces from infertility is a big negitive factor when and if you do adopt.

So after weeks and weeks and hours and hours of talking we set a plan of action and decided we NEEDED to try hard and go through the motions of the greif every infertile couple must go through before adoption becomes the option.

We set aside an amount of money we believed was worth the first step of our plan of action. We went to the fertility clinic and contrairy to the other postings here WE WERE FLAT OUT TOLD OUR CHANCE OF CONCEPTION WAS VERY VERY LOW. We were told this at the first appointment! Before any tests were even taken. We WERE TOLD our best hope would be a donor egg that very day. We considered that in our plan and decided we did not like the idea of paying some young college girl to inject drugs and go throw such an invasive proceedure just to obtain 1/2 a genetic child. We asked to continue to see if we could get to invetro.
We took all the tests and we found out some very important HEALTH issue going on with both of us. He had HEpC and I had uteran growth that could suspect... Flash forward and his 6-mos treatment for HepC may have saved his future and my growth was not seriouse but I still had two surgeries! Took shots, and drugs and prayed for the possibility of our genetic child. It did not work. We spent about $12,000 not counting the HepC and surgeries and I did not produce the 12 eggs needed to retreve for a statisically sucessful chance. THE CLINIC CONTINUED TO REMIND US THAT OUR CHANCE WAS LOW. We were again offered a donor egg... we decided at that time to greive.

And TALK.

At the same time we were dealing with the clinic we were obtaining as much information as we could about adoption. We got info and we filed it in a big box without really looking at it much. Just our --back up--plan in case. After we greived we looked in our box and discovered overwhelming options and choices about adoption.
We went through a phase of looking at loser parents with their babies and wishing we could become kidnappers... We even found it tempting to offer money...but, knew better! We went through a dead-time where at 40 we thought maybe it might just be fine to live the fast free life without any apronstrings... We took vacations and spent the whole time talking about how much more fun it would be if there was a five-year-old running around under our feet. Our vacations seemed less--not having them to share with a little one. Our Chirstmas seemed FLAT without Santa our days seemed long.....and WE TALKED.

When we were done greiving our LOSS...we looked in that box again and we sat down and TALKED a lot.....if we did adopt at 40 years old what would we be looking for? Financially we could make any choice we wanted and we could still go back for the donor egg...at least he would be the genetic father. But, as we looked through our box our hearts kept pulling us to those "Waiting Children" the ones the state had taken away from their drug abuser mothers and violent lives... We took some classes, and we talked to some private lawyers and other couples in our situation.

And we learned a few things... first that out of country adoptions were EXPENSIVE one of our firends ended up spending more then $60,000 on their 18month old all said and done. Another friend had paid attorneys $5,000.00 every time they wanted a birthmother to consider them as a good couple only to be rejected 7-times! And we were told by more then one lawyer that one of the little things considered in private adoption is our age and that most attorneys use 40 as a mark....and for each year past 40 they usually want a year for the child they place. (40 a newborn, 41 a 1yr-old, 42 a 2yr old....) and we talked.

Eventually, we went to the state and did our homestudy (it took 9 months to get it finished) And we took all the classes and we prayed for our children wherever they were and we talked. Once our homestudy was finished we were given two large notebooks filled with hundreds of children in our state WAITING to hear a bedtime story. We decided that if our children would not be genetically related to each of us--maybe they could be genetically related to each other? So we selected several sibling groups and said we wanted more info.....after that it moved so fast we hardly had a chance to catch up..... and then on December 18 we got the call....our five year daughter and 11 month old son biological siblings were waiting to meet us!

The very MOMENT we saw them I felt exactly the same as I did when I gave birth my older children. I cannot tell you how exactly the same my instant love is. In fact I was surprised having held a secret concern that I wasn't sure if I would feel the same about these two as do the older two I birthed. It almost freeked us out!
They came home with us January 10. And while I cannot say it has been an easy ride I can say it has been no worse then getting up every two hours to breast feed was. Yes, the little girl has issues and the baby was born positive for drugs, and dealing with the state is painful--but, everytime I hear my daughter say, "mommy, I love you" my heart does a flip! And, outsiders have seen what I have with these children the bond they share and love they for each other is like nothing I have ever seen between other siblings. Somewhere along their hard road they developed a love for each other that will last longer then my life. They will always be each others... no matter what. And genetically, that has been enough.

Adoption is not something you wake up and believe you want to just choose to do. While there are people out there who do adopt for many reasons other then just fertility the majority of couples who do, have experienced the greif of infertility. I will never forget the first words of the instructor in our first adoption class.... "Every adoption begins with a loss" generally on both sides, with parents who have tried and cannot concieve and again with a child who will eventually have to greive the loss of the birthmother.
My advice to you is to TALK and TALK all the way through whatever steps you take. It is not unusual to me to hear your husband express his fear of not having a genetic child. Especially, if he has witnessed what some of these babies have lived through. It is the process you are going through. Right now it appers you are past fertility and he is not. you must both be ready and stand together no matter what decision is made otherwise your relationship will not withstand the heavy preasure of any decision. My advice is to Talk about being open minded to your choices and be realistic about your selves. I can tell you from experience there is a good reason why it is harder to be a mother the older you get.... I have been a 20 year old mother and now I am a 40 something mother and the difference is nigh and day.
Talk about what heroic lengths you are willing to take, fincaially, physically and emotionally. Talk about how much money and time you are willing to lose and how far you are willing to go. If genetics matter to him....consider the donor egg.... if you TALK and go through all the hoops and remember what your goal is you may find your husband has a softer heart at some point. Raising children is a long road... and the parents who do this life job need to be able to be united. If he insists that you give birth then you may have a deep resentment--especially if it does not turn out like your mommy dreams make it. If you push adoption you may find an uninvolved resentful hubsand. The key is that this is a situation you will both live with for the rest of your time on earth. Every step needs to be united and the right path will unfold.... parenting is more then genetics and your husband loves you even though you have a differnt gene pool. He has not come to that point yet and may never want to adopt, but being a parent is about being able to overcome your differences and act in the best interest for your children....born or dreamed.

Loved your reply Anna. You are obviously well-grounded and no doubt a great parent. Having been thru similarly disappointing infertility treatment and making an (easier)transition to adoption, I recognize your thought processes and know you have much advice to offer many who come to this website seeking opinions. I know you must've helped the original poster here, and just wanted to let you know, your story is a very positive one for all those who simply want a family.

Stella, yes it does make sense. I feel the same way about adoption: It symbolizes letting go of TTC. I'm not quite there yet but getting there.... KABRI, the fact that your DR says he won't rule out adoption is a good first step. At least he is somewhat open to the idea. I really hope it works out for you.....

Karen

First off I have heard of ladies who are 40+ getting pg and having healthy babies. Several infact(I am a list owner of a secondary infertility group so we have several members over 40) With that being said I also know several who did not have their dreams come true. There are various reasons why and I would suggest that if you do want to try for a bio child or to see if it is even possible have some of the basic tests done. Your dr can code it for uturine pain or irregular cycles and the insurance will pick up the costs most of the time. Just make sure he stays away from the infertility codes. That will hopefully tell you how your egg quality is and such and will give you a better idea of what the next step will be. It will hopefully help dh. I think that when we are talking first children for men, many of them let their egos do the thinking/feeling. This was the case for my dh too. I have a 17 year old daughter from a previous relationship who considers my dh her father in everyway but blood. He has been a part of her life since she was 5. We did the tests and treatments including 1 IVF without being blessed. Then adoption was brought up on the list I am a part of. We use to foster when I was growing up and I never really thought about it, but watching someone go through it and talk about it really captured me. I suddenly felt this calmness and I realized this was what we were meant to do. I never felt this way with treatments. At first my dh was completely against adoption and wanted me to do another IVF, but I could not emotionally go through it again. So I did more research and slowly brought it up to him in bits and pieces. He slowly came around and agreed to go to the orientation and then do the homestudy and the classes. Then came the day we were matched. This was the second time as we were matched with a sib group a few months before only to lose them because the foster family decided a week before the initial meeting that they wanted to adopt them. So dh was guarded, but excited. He don't show things the way I do, but he will suddenly make a comment that blows me away and really shows me he is excited. He remains guarded because we are waiting for TPR and we have not yet met the boys, but I hear him making plans with his brothers to take "all the boys" out camping once ours are home. Sorry this is so long, but I want you to know that most of the time it takes a while for the guys to get excited and they will not show it like we do. They don't have that mother instinct that we do that tells them they will bond so they are scared, but when that child or children are in his arms he will be amazed. I wish you the best.